I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.

So what would you do in that situation?

[1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
"Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be able to
apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis".
-- Mike Sphar

"Paul Tomblin" wrote:

>I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?

Good question. I've had one of the beasts for a month now, and it's a crap
shoot every time.


> [1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
> Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
> mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.


Haven't tried that, yet. How long do you leave the pump on?



Here's another method from one of the Cessna Pilots Ass'n forums:

Hot start:

Throttle in 1/4" from idle.
Mixture cutoff
Fuel pump on
Mixture full forward until fuel flow just registers (about a long
one-one-thousand)
Mixture cutoff
Fuel pump off
Crank - after about six to ten blades (3-blade prop) it will fire -
immediately come foreward to full rich.

Shorten or lengthen the priming time from one to three seconds depending on
time since shut-down.


--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> So what would you do in that situation?
>
> [1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
> Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
> mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.

The PA32-300 I fly can be fun to start when it is hot.
It depends upon how long it has been sitting since it was shut down.
For a short duration, what you described above may work.

The first thing I do is park the aircraft so the nose is pointing into
the wind. After shut down, open the oil door atop the cowl.

Flooded procedure has been my most successful procedure.

Something else to try is...
Throttle full forward
Mixture closed
Fuel pump ON for 30 seconds (no fuel goes to the engine but passes
through the fuel line to the engine then back through the return line to
the tank; this cools the fuel line and purges any bubbles in the line;
that's the theory)
Normal start procedure

One of the things I learned when flying an IO-320 in a homebuilt
amphibean was that there were "sweet spot" throttle and mixture postions
(right combination of air and fuel) where the engine would start up
immediately. These were learned through trial and error.

In a previous article, "Dan Luke" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" wrote:
>> [1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
>> Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
>> mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.
>
>
>Haven't tried that, yet. How long do you leave the pump on?

Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
flowing.

>Hot start:
>
>Throttle in 1/4" from idle.
>Mixture cutoff
>Fuel pump on
>Mixture full forward until fuel flow just registers (about a long
>one-one-thousand)
>Mixture cutoff
>Fuel pump off
>Crank - after about six to ten blades (3-blade prop) it will fire -
>immediately come foreward to full rich.
>
>Shorten or lengthen the priming time from one to three seconds depending on
>time since shut-down.

That's how I cold start it - the only difference with hot starting is that
I don't do the "mixture full forward until the fuel flow just registers".


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
So I was reading Twelfth Night ... and would you believe that the I LOVE YOU
hoax is the exact same trick Shakespeare uses to point out what an arrogant,
self-absorbed fool Malvolio is? -- Julia McKinnell

john smith wrote:

>
> The PA32-300 I fly can be fun to start when it is hot.
> It depends upon how long it has been sitting since it was shut down.
> For a short duration, what you described above may work.
>
> The first thing I do is park the aircraft so the nose is pointing into
> the wind. After shut down, open the oil door atop the cowl.


With the Continental 520 in my Bo you want to park facing downwind so
the wind can blow up into the cowl flaps to help cool the fuel pump.
The fuel boiling in the engine driven fuel pump is what causes the hot
start problems.

On 7/16/2007 4:36:02 PM, Newps wrote:

> With the Continental 520 in my Bo you want to park facing downwind so
> the wind can blow up into the cowl flaps to help cool the fuel pump.
> The fuel boiling in the engine driven fuel pump is what causes the hot
> start problems.

First thing I do when I jump out of my V35 after landing knowing it is going
to be a short stop is to open both cowling covers. Always garners different
observations; some who understand and some who think the aircraft has an
engine problem.

Of course that is not an option for aircraft with covers that are screwed on.

--
Peter

"john smith" wrote:

> Fuel pump ON for 30 seconds (no fuel goes to the engine but passes
> through the fuel line to the engine then back through the return line to
> the tank; this cools the fuel line and purges any bubbles in the line;
> that's the theory)

Are we talking about Lycomings or Continentals here?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Not the IO-540, but I have found on our IO-360 that a 'flooded start' works
best anytime the engine is being restarted within 2 hours of shutdown.
Specifically, no fuel pump. mixture to cut off, throttle full, crank.
Advance mixture, retard throttle when engine begins to fire
"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?
>
> [1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
> Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
> mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
> "Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be able to
> apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis".
> -- Mike Sphar

For our Aztec... and it's worked 100% of the time for previous and current
owners... honest :)

Throttles full open
Mixtures full rich
Electric pumps on JUST until you see FF register then quickly off, mixtures
full lean, throttles 1/4" open... quickly!
Immediately crank, watch, and listen
It will crank quickly at first, then start to slow.. as it slows be ready...
the engine is just about to fire
When it fires, immediately richen mixture no more than 1/2 rich... 1/3 is
probably better, remember everything is HOT, no need for a ton of fuel!
Hand quickly goes back to throttle to juggle if the engine stumbles.

Remember once it catches and you richen the mixture, your engine driven fuel
pump is pumping fuel. Don't let it flood your engine only to have it die
but now in a flooded condition.

The goal is to NOT flood it. Once you do, you sit and wait. If you prime
it very little, you have a second chance to repeat the procedure. If you
prime it too much, you have to sit and wait. For our 12v battery and long
cables the flooded engine start method just takes too much out of the
battery.

POH says Throttles open, mixtures full rich, boost pumps on, crank until it
fires, throttles to idle, boost pumps off. Great way to kill a puny 12v
battery at the end of 12 feet of cable. :(

Jim

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?
>
> [1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
> Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
> mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
> "Zero Tolerance" in this case meaning "We're too stupid to be able to
> apply conscious thought on a case-by-case basis".
> -- Mike Sphar

I've used that method on Archers (O-360) and found that it worked great.
Doesn't do squat in our Aztec though ;(
Jim

"pgbnh" > wrote in message
. ..
> Not the IO-540, but I have found on our IO-360 that a 'flooded start'
works
> best anytime the engine is being restarted within 2 hours of shutdown.
> Specifically, no fuel pump. mixture to cut off, throttle full, crank.
> Advance mixture, retard throttle when engine begins to fire

On 2007-07-16, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time

Me too (Comanche 260):

Throttle wide open
Mixture at cutoff
Thumb goes on mixture and two fingers hook behind throttle (my mixture
is on the left, you may have to adjust this)
Crank (goes surprisingly fast with no drag on the intake!)
As it catches, simultaneously advance the mixture and retard the throttle
by pivoting your hand.

By the way, at no point until the runup do I ever advance the mixture
more than an inch and a half or so, including during this procedure.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?
>
> [1] Leave the throttle, mixture and prop alone from when you shut down.
> Turn on the fuel pump, and crank. When it catches, quickly advance the
> mixture to full, and once it stops spluttering lean it out.
>


Ours is a turbo PA32RT-300T, but I'd expect similar behavior for the
non-turbo.

1) Fuel pump off, mixture idle cutoff, throttle 1/4" open

2) Crank engine and advance mixture slowly - not usually more than 1"

3) engine typically catches, THEN pump on and slowly bring mixture rich
and back off throttle as needed.

If the engine doesn't catch, then I'll stop for a minute and repeat the
process, but this time with the fuel pump on at step 2.


I was at Catalina yesterday getting ready to fire up for the trip home.
Next to us was a 172SP that did not want to start. The pilot kept cranking
away -- I was sure he would melt the starter if the battery didn't give
out first. I was just about to climb out and walk over to suggest he
give it a rest when he finally got it started. So obviously I will
learn from watching him that if the engine doesn't want to start, just
keep cranking until it magically springs to life! :-)

Steve

"Paul Tomblin" wrote:

>> How long do you leave the pump on?
>
> Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
> flowing.

??

Then why leave it on?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

> "Paul Tomblin" wrote:

> >> How long do you leave the pump on?
>> Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
>> flowing.

> Dan Luke wrote:
> ??
> Then why leave it on?

Fuel is flowing from the tanks to the spider, from the spider it is
going back to the tank via the return line. As the mixture is advanced,
fuel will flow from the spider to the cylinders.

"john smith" wrote:

>> >> How long do you leave the pump on?
>>> Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
>>> flowing.
>
> > Dan Luke wrote:
>> ??
>> Then why leave it on?
>
> Fuel is flowing from the tanks to the spider, from the spider it is going
> back to the tank via the return line.

AIUI, that's true on Continentals but not on Lycomings. According to
discussions I've seen on the Cessna Pilots Assn. forums, closing the mixture
control dead-heads the pump.

Anybody got an authoritative cite on this?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

> closing the mixture control dead-heads the pump...

....on Lycomings.

Dan Luke wrote:
> "john smith" wrote:
>
>
>>> >> How long do you leave the pump on?
>>>
>>>>Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
>>>>flowing.
>>
>>>Dan Luke wrote:
>>>??
>>>Then why leave it on?
>>
>>Fuel is flowing from the tanks to the spider, from the spider it is going
>>back to the tank via the return line.
>
>
> AIUI, that's true on Continentals but not on Lycomings.


Not true on Continentals. What causes hot start problems is the fuel in
the engine driven pump has boiled. Mixture at cut off and run the
electric pump makes fuel flow thru the engine driven pump and back to
the tank from which it came, thus cooling the pump. No fuel goes to the
spider. If you have the mixture pushed in the fuel will then go to the
spider. But once the spider lines are full any more fuel then goes
overboard. This is what causes a a fire hazard.

> Dan Luke wrote:
>>>> >> How long do you leave the pump on?
>>>>
>>>>> Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no
>>>>> fuel is
>>>>> flowing.
>>>
>>>> Dan Luke wrote:
>>>> ??
>>>> Then why leave it on?

>> "john smith" wrote:
>>> Fuel is flowing from the tanks to the spider, from the spider it is
>>> going back to the tank via the return line.

>> AIUI, that's true on Continentals but not on Lycomings.

> Newps wrote:
> Not true on Continentals. What causes hot start problems is the fuel in
> the engine driven pump has boiled. Mixture at cut off and run the
> electric pump makes fuel flow thru the engine driven pump and back to
> the tank from which it came, thus cooling the pump. No fuel goes to the
> spider. If you have the mixture pushed in the fuel will then go to the
> spider. But once the spider lines are full any more fuel then goes
> overboard. This is what causes a a fire hazard.

Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding.

On 2007-07-16, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.

I think it's the same as computers with lots of SCSI hardware - you have
to make sure you've sacrificed enough chickens recently. Or AN hardware.
I forget which.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

In a previous article, said:
>On 2007-07-16, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
>> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
>> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
>> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
>> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
>I think it's the same as computers with lots of SCSI hardware - you have
>to make sure you've sacrificed enough chickens recently. Or AN hardware.
>I forget which.

Don't be silly. For SCSI hardware, it's black goats. At midnight. With
a silver dagger. And there are perfectly valid technical reasons why.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
USER, n.:
The word computer professionals use when they mean "idiot".

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> In a previous article, said:
>> On 2007-07-16, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
>>> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
>>> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
>>> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
>>> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
>>> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>> I think it's the same as computers with lots of SCSI hardware - you have
>> to make sure you've sacrificed enough chickens recently. Or AN hardware.
>> I forget which.
>
> Don't be silly. For SCSI hardware, it's black goats. At midnight. With
> a silver dagger. And there are perfectly valid technical reasons why.

Is it because the must be properly terminated?

On 2007-07-17, Paul Tomblin > wrote:
> Don't be silly. For SCSI hardware, it's black goats. At midnight. With
> a silver dagger. And there are perfectly valid technical reasons why.

Ah! Now I know why I had so much trouble with that bloody server
yesterday. I've been sacrificing the wrong things all along.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

On Jul 16, 2:04 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?

I would use the last-resort starting procedure for injected engines.
It was taught to me years ago by an ATP/A&P/CFI owner of multiple
aircraft, and it has NEVER failed to work in my experience, on any
horizontally opposed injected engine that I have ever dealt with,
large or small, four cylinders or six, high compression or low,
Lycoming or Continental. Now I pass it on to you.

Mixture full rich
Full throttle
Run fuel pump a few seconds (if you have a fuel pressure/flow gauge,
run fuel pump until it stops coming up)
Fuel pump off
Mixture idle cutoff
Crank
When it catches (and it will), simultaneously enrich the mixture and
pull back the throttle.

Here's why it works:
With throttle and mixture full forward, the fuel pump forces cold fuel
through all the lines, cools the lines, eliminates the vapor lock -
and floods the engine.
With fuel pump off and mixture at idle cutoff, no fuel gets to the
cylinders.
With the throttle full open, lots of air gets to the cylinders.
With a few revolutions, the flooding is eliminated - the air-fuel mix
going into the cylinders starts out way too rich (flooded) but quickly
leans out enough for combustion.
Now the engine is running - all you need to do is keep it from dying,
by enriching the mixture.

It's not terribly important to pull back the throttle quickly, either
- just stand on the brakes. So if you can't do both (enrich mixture
and close throttle) at once, push the mixture rich and then pull back
the throttle.

It's not wonderful for the engine, but it's not terrible either. It's
not like you would ever cold-start it that way. It just ran recently,
there is plenty of oil everywhere and the engine is hot. And once you
get good at it, you will be able to complete the start procedure
without the engine ever going over 2000 RPM.

If you have a procedure that consistently works, stick with it - but
when it won't work - and most every injected engine I've ever seen
eventually refuses to start - this is the method of last resort.
Never seen it fail.

Michael

On Jul 16, 10:06 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> "Paul Tomblin" wrote:
>
> >> How long do you leave the pump on?
>
>
>
> > Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
> > flowing.
>
> ??
>
> Then why leave it on?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

Hi, I'm a student A&P (Commercial, instrument pilot) and recently
learned that the fuel vapor in the line needs to be purged to assist
starting fuel-injected engines, meaning the line between the tank and
the "spider" fuel distributor. This is why the mixture is left closed,
to clean out the line of the hot fuel vapor that will make starting
difficult.
The Lycoming manual for the fuel injectors we were working with have a
humorous, yet informative and accurate description and remedy for the
problem of hot starting fuel-injected engines.
Now I know why the old Arrow I did my commercial training in was so
hard to start after shutting down in the hot Texas Summer.

Ricky (WOW, I'm already teaching something I learned last semester!)

On Jul 16, 10:06 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> "Paul Tomblin" wrote:
>
> >> How long do you leave the pump on?
>
>
>
> > Until it's started. Because the mixture is still at cut-off, no fuel is
> > flowing.
>
> ??
>
> Then why leave it on?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

Oops, I think I meant fuel flows from the tank to the pump & back via
the return line which purges the line of the hot vapor.
Well, I made an A in the class, anyway.

Ricky

This works every time for me also.


> Mixture full rich
> Full throttle
> Run fuel pump a few seconds (if you have a fuel pressure/flow gauge,
> run fuel pump until it stops coming up)
> Fuel pump off
> Mixture idle cutoff
> Crank
> When it catches (and it will), simultaneously enrich the mixture and
> pull back the throttle.
>
> Here's why it works:
> With throttle and mixture full forward, the fuel pump forces cold fuel
> through all the lines, cools the lines, eliminates the vapor lock -
> and floods the engine.
> With fuel pump off and mixture at idle cutoff, no fuel gets to the
> cylinders.
> With the throttle full open, lots of air gets to the cylinders.
> With a few revolutions, the flooding is eliminated - the air-fuel mix
> going into the cylinders starts out way too rich (flooded) but quickly
> leans out enough for combustion.
> Now the engine is running - all you need to do is keep it from dying,
> by enriching the mixture.
>
> It's not terribly important to pull back the throttle quickly, either
> - just stand on the brakes. So if you can't do both (enrich mixture
> and close throttle) at once, push the mixture rich and then pull back
> the throttle.
>
> It's not wonderful for the engine, but it's not terrible either. It's
> not like you would ever cold-start it that way. It just ran recently,
> there is plenty of oil everywhere and the engine is hot. And once you
> get good at it, you will be able to complete the start procedure
> without the engine ever going over 2000 RPM.
>
> If you have a procedure that consistently works, stick with it - but
> when it won't work - and most every injected engine I've ever seen
> eventually refuses to start - this is the method of last resort.
> Never seen it fail.
>
> Michael
>

On Jul 16, 3:04 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?

On Jul 16, 3:04 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> I know that hot starting IO-540s is a subject for considerable debate. I
> was taught a method that I was told worked 100% of the time[1], and up
> until yesterday it had. But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then
> sitting in the hot sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't
> restart the Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> So what would you do in that situation?

This is straight out of the Continental Continuous Flow Fuel Injection
Manual;

"It's a hot Summer day and the pilot has just shut down the engines
after a routine flight. As you can inagine, things are pretty warm
under that engine cowling.
Well, there's something you should know about that heat. All of the
raw, liquid fuel in practically every line forward of the firewall has
turned to vapor - which would be just fine because that's the way we
want it when it enters the cylinders.
Only there's one little hitch. The injection pump cannot supply fuel
in it's vapor state fast enough at engine cranking speed to provide
adequate fuel for starting.
During the course of events that follows, the situation usually goes
from one extreme to the other and the engine becomes flooded. Well -
there's the problem - now for the solution.
Remember that electric fuel pump we mentioned earlier? Good! Because
we are going to show you how to use it to prevent this situation from
ever happening again, and in three simple steps that can be applied to
any airplane equipped with fuel injection engines.

First, place the mixture in idle cut-off or full lean position. This
prevents any quantity of fuel from reaching the cylinder and causes
all of the fuel delivered by the electric pump to return back to the
tank by way of the return line system.

Second, place the throttle in the full open position. It really
wouldn't matter about the throttle except that some aircraft makers
put safety switches on their throttles to prevent the electric pump
from operating in the high range when the throttle is retarded, so to
avoid confusion or having two sets of steps, we will use the full open
position for all airplanes.

Third, switch the electric fuel pump to it's high position. Now sit
back and relax for about 15 to 20 seconds.

While you are relaxing, here is what is happening. The electric pump
is delivering liquid fuel from the supply tank to the injection pump,
through the pump bypass valve, into the metering unit where the closed
mixture control switches fuel and vapors into the return system and on
it's way back to the tank where it came from originally.
Now the lines are free of vapor and full of liquid fuel again. In the
process of purging we have also cooled down the interior of the fuel
lines and fuel pump, therefore, vapor will not form the minute we
switch off the electric fuel pump.

Now we are ready to start the engine so first, switch off the electric
fuel pump. Now retard the throttle to the normal start position.
Advance the ixture control to full rich, mags on, and engage the
starter. The engine will start immediately because all lines and
components are full of liquid fuel and able to function as they
should. This very simple procedure will work every time and on any
engine equipped with fuel injection. Once the engine has started, the
injection pump will continue the purging operation since it does this
anyway whenever it is running. In addition, ram air from the propeller
passing into the nacelle will begin cooling the fuel lines and system
down from the outside. (A good aid to this is to open cowl flaps and/
or point into the wind)." - From Continental Continuous Flow Fuel
Injection System maintenance, overhaul, and troubleshooting manual.

Another source of hard starting difficulties with a hot engine is low
unmetered fuel pressure. With this condition you will also have rough
idling and engine stoppage during rollout after landing, followed by
difficulty in re-starting.
The solution is simple and involves checking for proper setting of
idle speed on the fuel control unit, adjusting the low unmetered fuel
pressure to specified limits, and also adjusting the idle mixture
after setting the low unmetered fuel pressure. This is an A&P job and
I won't go into details unless someone asks, my fingers are tired
after this long response!

I will add to the hot start procedure that it may be helpful to
advance mixture for a second or less until flow is just noticed. This
will clear out some or all fuel vapor between the fuel control unit
and the cylinders but you can easily flood the cylinders doing this.
Besides that, the distance between the fuel control unit and the
cylinders is small and the remaining fuel vapor will quickly be pushed
out by the advancing liquid fuel.

Ricky (student A&P)

In a previous article, Ricky > said:
>Another source of hard starting difficulties with a hot engine is low
>unmetered fuel pressure. With this condition you will also have rough
>idling and engine stoppage during rollout after landing, followed by
>difficulty in re-starting.

Come to think of it, a few months ago during my BFR in this same plane,
the engine died while rolling out after the landing, and we couldn't
restart it until it cooled down. I think I might have to bring this up
with our A&P.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

On Jul 20, 8:50 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> In a previous article, Ricky > said:
>
> >Another source of hard starting difficulties with a hot engine is low
> >unmetered fuel pressure. With this condition you will also have rough
> >idling and engine stoppage during rollout after landing, followed by
> >difficulty in re-starting.
>
> Come to think of it, a few months ago during my BFR in this same plane,
> the engine died while rolling out after the landing, and we couldn't
> restart it until it cooled down. I think I might have to bring this up
> with our A&P.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin /
> If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

And since you mentioned that the method you have used for hot starts,
which previously was successful, has stopped working, then your low
unmetered fuel pressure very likely may be the culprit.

Ricky

Paul Tomblin > wrote:
> But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then sitting in the hot
> sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't restart the
> Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.

For any fuel injection system that has been competently designed in the
last 40 years, the proper hot starting procedure is:

1) Leave throttle at idle
2) Crank until it catches
3) Advance throttle to desired setting

The proper cold starting procedure is:

1) Leave throttle at idle
2) Crank until it catches
3) Advance throttle to desired setting

The proper warm starting procedure is:

1) Leave throttle at idle
2) Crank until it catches
3) Advance throttle to desired setting

(There is no manual mixture control nor manual control of the fuel
pump.)

Of course, we're talking about airplanes, so none of the above applies.

Matt Roberds

On Jul 24, 3:42 am, wrote:
> Paul Tomblin > wrote:
> > But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then sitting in the hot
> > sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't restart the
> > Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> For any fuel injection system that has been competently designed in the
> last 40 years, the proper hot starting procedure is:
>
> 1) Leave throttle at idle
> 2) Crank until it catches
> 3) Advance throttle to desired setting
>
> The proper cold starting procedure is:
>
> 1) Leave throttle at idle
> 2) Crank until it catches
> 3) Advance throttle to desired setting
>
> The proper warm starting procedure is:
>
> 1) Leave throttle at idle
> 2) Crank until it catches
> 3) Advance throttle to desired setting
>
> (There is no manual mixture control nor manual control of the fuel
> pump.)
>
> Of course, we're talking about airplanes, so none of the above applies.
>
> Matt Roberds

Hi,

I appreciate your input but your method seems to be totally lacking in
the essential elements of starting a fuel-injected engine when hot.
Did you read any of the other posts or are you just trying to say that
if a fuel injected engine won't start when hot then it wasn't
"competentely designed" in your opinion?

Ricky

On Jul 24, 3:42 am, wrote:
> Paul Tomblin > wrote:
> > But yesterday, after flying for an hour and then sitting in the hot
> > sun for half an hour waiting for customs, I couldn't restart the
> > Lance and had to have it towed back to the tie down area.
>
> For any fuel injection system that has been competently designed in the
> last 40 years, the proper hot starting procedure is:
>
> 1) Leave throttle at idle
> 2) Crank until it catches
> 3) Advance throttle to desired setting
>
> The proper cold starting procedure is:
>
> 1) Leave throttle at idle
> 2) Crank until it catches
> 3) Advance throttle to desired setting
>
> The proper warm starting procedure is:
>
> 1) Leave throttle at idle
> 2) Crank until it catches
> 3) Advance throttle to desired setting
>
> (There is no manual mixture control nor manual control of the fuel
> pump.)
>
> Of course, we're talking about airplanes, so none of the above applies.
>
> Matt Roberds

Hi,

I appreciate your input but your method seems to be totally lacking in
the essential elements of starting a fuel-injected engine when hot.
Did you read any of the other posts or are you just trying to say that
if a fuel injected engine won't start when hot then it wasn't
"competentely designed" in your opinion?

Ricky

Ricky > wrote in news:1185317834.174027.117390@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 24, 3:42 am, wrote:
>> Of course, we're talking about airplanes, so none of the above applies.
>
> I appreciate your input but your method seems to be totally lacking in
> the essential elements of starting a fuel-injected engine when hot.
> Did you read any of the other posts or are you just trying to say that
> if a fuel injected engine won't start when hot then it wasn't
> "competentely designed" in your opinion?

Read his last sentence (requoted above) and I think you will get his joke...